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Daisydreamer
Senior Contributor

Peer Pathways week long consultation - 26th September

Hi Forums Community, 

 

At the end of September, we would like to invite you to a week long community consultation on the SANE Forums to help us develop and implement a new employment readiness program (Monday 26th September- Sunday 2nd October). 

 

SANE Peer Pathways Program

Background

The SANE Forums are an example of the amazing power of peer support, the way it can shape the lives of a community of peers in a mutual, safe and understanding environment. We have heard from members of the Forums, and our Community Guide team, that building skills and experience of offering peer support in the Forums can be a step into the peer workforce, or exploring employment in mental health fields as a career. 

 

We need your help to develop a pilot program that will support participants to explore peer work as a career pathway.

 

Why peer pathways?

During recovery, there are times when we may need to take time off or face barriers to re-entering the workforce. Peer Pathways aims to support those experiencing barriers to entering the workforce, or who have been unemployed or underemployed for a period of time to gain support, training and practical experience in peer work.

This program also adds to roles in the mental health sector, as there are more and more peer work roles becoming available, but without the support pathways for people to try peer support, get foundational training, and have the opportunity to gain practical peer support experience before applying for roles.

SANE has been funded by the Department of Social Services to deliver a new program in a small pilot starting in three PHN regions in Australia (Wide Bay in QLD, Darwin in NT, and Hobart in TAS).

 

Our goal:

We aim to create a new pathway into the Community Guide Program and opportunities in peer support at SANE that can support those who have been out of work, or experience barriers to safe and supportive work experience.

We envision that this program will build on the principles and supports of the Community Guide Program (including training, mentoring and support), to provide new pathways for those to prepare for volunteering, education and employment.

At the moment, this is a pilot program- so we are trialling this program on a smaller scale to see if it creates the impact that we hope it will. Our hope is that if the program is successful, that we can deliver it more broadly across Australia. You are welcome to read more about the program here: https://www.sane.org/peer-support/peer-pathway-program

 

The consultation:

At the end of this month, starting Monday the 26th of September, we will be posting a question or two a day to hear your thoughts about the program to inform the design, delivery and evaluation over the next 2 years.

 

If you are interested in this consultation, feel free to click the "support" button below and I will tag you when the consultation starts. This is an exciting opportunity to share your thoughts and help us to build this new program together 🙂 

 

- Daisydreamer and the SANE Lived Experience Team

66 REPLIES 66

Re: Peer Pathways week long consultation - 26th September

Hi there SANE Community, 

 

Today, I am excited to open the SANE consultation for a newly funded program to support people who have been unemployed or under-employed to explore peer support as a pathway to employment. 

 

This is the start of a week long discussion and we want to hear from you 🙂 

 

How will it work?

Every day, I will post a question or two here, and you can submit your answers by replying to the post. If you like someone else's comment, feel free to "support it" or comment to build on it. There are no right or wrong answers, and we want to know what is important to you. 

 

Check back in each week day for a new question, and to hear from your fellow community members. If you know someone who might be interested to get involved, feel free to tag other members.

 

What are we consulting on?

We recently completed a consultation with Community Guides to co-design areas of the program. From our conversations so far, and our experience implementing peer support programs, we are hearing that supporting the transition to employment in peer work includes a few important activities such as training, support from a Peer Mentor, debriefing and supervision, and the opportunity to practice peer support and apply the skills. 

 

Building on feedback from Community Guides, this week we will ask the SANE Community questions about:

1. Training 

2. Peer Mentoring

3. Pathways to Peer Work, training, volunteering and other employment avenues

4. A new name for the program!

 

You are also welcome to ask any questions or make suggestions! We are still in the co-design phase, so we will do our best to answer your questions and incorporate your ideas.

 

How will we incorporate your feedback?

SANE is currently in a co-design process working with SANE service users, volunteers, staff, and external organisations to design and implement this program. Our goal is to incorporate your feedback into the program design, and to implement this program with EOIs open in January 2023. 

 

If you are interested in this program, and live in Darwin (NT), Hobart (TAS) or Wide Bay (QLD) PHNs, please feel free to express your interest via email at livedexperience@sane.org - we will reach out when EOIs officially open in January! If you live outside these areas, but are interested in future, please feel free to send us an email and we can let you know if there are upcoming opportunities in your state.

 

 

Let's get started!

Tagging all those who supported the original post @Sandra23 @Patchworks @Zoe7 @StuF @tyme @chibam @yellowcorgi @Historylover @Appleblossom @Captain24 @Bow @Little_Leopard @Peregrinefalcon 

Re: Peer Pathways week long consultation - 26th September

Day 1: Developing Training

 

SANE is looking to develop training that would support someone to seek employment in peer support, build peer support skills, or build employment readiness skills. A key goal of this program is to prepare participants for the Peer Workforce or further training/education, recognising that for some this might be a career change or a reintroduction to the workforce. 

 

1. What are some of the things you would want to know about peer support before you took the step to apply for paid roles or formal courses?

 

 

2. If you have been out of work in past, what has supported you in your journey to seeking employment? What helped? Were there barriers?

Re: Peer Pathways week long consultation - 26th September


@Daisydreamer wrote:

2. If you have been out of work in past, what has supported you in your journey to seeking employment? What helped? Were there barriers?


Forgive me if I go off topic here, but I want to address a few things that I believe are in the spirit of that question, if not it's direct wording.

 

Also, please forgive me if, at any point to follow, I come off as being unduely accusatory towards SANE and other backers of this scheme. As you will read, my history with this issue is soured with experiances of exploitation and abuse, so there will be some latent bitterness woven into my writing here. Apologies, if that comes off as me lashing out at anybody who is reading this.

 

Will This Scheme Exploit People?

This is a concern that has troubled me from the moment I first learned about this scheme.

 

I understand that the backers of this scheme are desparate to recruit more workers for the mental health system. There have been countless calls from the highest levels of government and advocacy to expand the size of the mental health system, and there are doubtlessly numerous people out there who have to find some way to shore up those numbers, or it'll be their heads on the chopping block. Having an agenda of recruiting new staff into the mental health system is not a bad thing in and of itself.

 

But my concern is that you may be seeking to achieve those ends by exploiting desparate people who have no other realistic hope of being offered employment.

 

These concerns are rooted in my own experiance with therapy. Long-term unemployment was a significant issue with my life when I entered in to therapy.

 

Despite having no interest in food, food service, or food production; nor expressing any such interest within our sessions, my therapist became bizzarrely fixated upon herding me in to a job in the food service industry. She refused to listen when I repeatedly told her that such a career was of no interest to me. All she ever talked about (in terms of employment) was me working in a restraunt.

 

Subsequently, whenever I bemoaned my own lack of career progress in our sessions, she would not-so-subtly imply that my career failure was my own fault, because she had made suggestions about getting me in to the food service industry and I had resisted them. I didn't seem to be aloud to have ambitions for my own life, if they contradicted with her abmitions for my life.

 

I think there was an expectation there that, because I was desparate, I would not only be easy to exploit and manipulate, but that I also had a moral duty to completely submit myself to her will. Because she was being benevolent enough to offer me a way in to the workforce, I was morally obliged to pledge obediance to her will, and renounce any and all personal aspirations I had for myself or my life.

 

Hence, my (perhaps unfounded) concerns about what SANE is doing here. We are, in many cases, talking about desparate, desparate people. People struggling with the overwhelming helplessness of long-term unemployment. And now you are, at long last, dangling the prospect of employment in front of their faces... but it's only for a job as a "peer worker".

 

What about the people who don't want to be peer workers? What about the depressed, suicidal people out there who are being kept alive largely, if not exclusively, by the hope that one day they will get to achieve their deeply-cherished dream of being a fashion designer, or a cop, or an actor, or a pilot, or a mechanic? What happens to them when an organization like SANE comes to them with the prospect of the far-removed profession of "peer work", effectively saying to them: "Look, this is the job your getting. Take it or leave it."?

 

Is there some quiet awareness behind the scenes that a lot of people out there have differant aspirations for their lives; but that they are also so desparate, they will inevitably 'break' and latch on to this one and only opportunity? You have to admit, that desparation is awfully convienient for those in authority who are tasked with the job of bolstering the number of mental health workers in our workforce.🤔 So, is that desparation being exploited?

 

To put it another way, what if the people running this scheme did so with a more benevolent ethos? What if, instead of having a mechanism that beat a path of desparate people into "peer work", we built a mechanism to beat a path for them into whatever career they nominate?

 

I understand and respect the fact that the mental health system needs to be grown in staff numbers. I understand that that won't be an easy task, and I understand that sometimes hard decisions need to be made, and that some people have to "lose" to insure that the job gets done.

 

I just don't like seeing desparate people getting exploited. Too many bad memories.

 

 

I have other commentary to offer on Question 2, but I think I'll take a break now and come back to that later this evening.

Re: Peer Pathways week long consultation - 26th September

Hey @chibam I hear your concerns and I assure you that isn't the intention. What we are seeing, is that a lot of our service users are interested in working in peer work so I believe we are trying to create a path for people to pursue that dream. The peer industry is expanding and therefore the peer workforce can expand with it, it's an opportunity to do more of what we are already doing and what many of us continue to benefit from. I'll let @Daisydreamer get back to you as she has a better understanding of it than me 😊 Thanks for your thoughts!

Re: Peer Pathways week long consultation - 26th September


@Paperdaisy wrote:

Hey @chibam I hear your concerns and I assure you that isn't the intention. What we are seeing, is that a lot of our service users are interested in working in peer work so I believe we are trying to create a path for people to pursue that dream. The peer industry is expanding and therefore the peer workforce can expand with it, it's an opportunity to do more of what we are already doing and what many of us continue to benefit from.


Thanks, @Paperdaisy . That's reassuring, although I can't help but wonder: intended or not, will that nonetheless be the ultimate effect.

 

Forgive me. As I've tried to explain, my thinking on this issue is tainted by poor personal experiance. I'm probably being more paranoid then insightful.

 

 

Now, as promised, my additional commentary on Q2:


@Daisydreamer wrote:

2. What helped?


 

Nothing. I can offer far more insight on what didn't help at all:

* The mental health system

* (So-called) Friends

* (So-called) Family

* Teachers/School faculties

 

IMHO, that last one really needs to be talked about, because it's one of the areas where we might be able to see real change. Also, I've increasingly come to find it absurd that our school teachers gave us no help whatsoever with employment. I mean, think about it, for all our lives up till adulthood, our lives are defined by the school system. They tell us precisely where to go and precisely how to behave, and even precisely what they want to read from us in the paperwork we turn in. It's really a very simple dynamic; do what your told, and you won't get abuse from the powers that be.

 

Then, overnight, you turn 18 and the gates of the old school are closed to you. "Bon Voyage! Don't come back!"

 

And suddenly, nobody will tell you where you are expected to be, or what they expect you to do when you get there! You just hear vague murmurings from the world around you that your some sort of defect because you never go to "your job"; but nobody will tell you where that is!

 

At least the school teachers, who would rip in to the delinquent students for skipping class or showing up late, could at least truthfully say: "We gave you a sheet at the beginning of the year that told you what classrooms we expect you to go to, and when we expect you to go to them!" But then, once you turn 18, the laws of reality a upended in a way you could never have imagined. Suddenly, there is no class schedule given, yet the world nonetheless insists on ripping on you for not adhering to it! As if your just psychically supposed to know where this mystery location "job" your supposed to go to is.

 

How can teachers do that? Just dump students in to that unnavicable labyrinth without any sort of assistance? To expect a person who's location has, for an entire lifetime been dictated precisely by the whims of the authorities, to immediately transform in to expert navigator Matthew Flinders and suddenly just know the precise GPS coordinates of their "job"? And then hate on them so brutally for not being able to achieve that rediculous feat?

 

We need teachers to insure that, before they usher their students out the door of the school, the students know very clearly where they are going, and how to get there. We need teachers - or some other effective school official, to listen carefully to students' career ambitions and to cut the path for them in to that future, as best they can.

 

No suddenly-an-adult student should ever hear the creaky gates of the old school swinging shut forever behind their backs, and feel the sweat trickling down their brow as the question: "Shit! What happens now?" echoes through their brain over and over, with no answer forthcoming. The schools should be sending their students out in to the world with a clear. carefully itinerized picture of how day one, week one, month one, year one of their post-school life will play out.


@Daisydreamer wrote:

2. Were there barriers?


Well, educational barriers is obviously a big one; companies refusing to touch anyone who doesn't life up to their educational requirements. And also laws that forbid such companies from hiring people, even if those companies would want to, based on the person's educational level. But your program seems to address that, in its own way.

 

Another major barrier that often goes unrecognized is so-called "financial security". Because if people believe you have enough money, IME they won't be interested in helping you get a job.

 

I struck that problem in my own life. I made a remark once that was misconstrued by a friend in to meaning that I had a lot of money. I mentioned that I owned some shares in a big company. In reality, they paid maybe at most $500 total per year. This was my only income stream. But my friend went around telling people "You don't need a job do you? You just get money from your shares!" So, you can imagine how many offers I got from that crowd for assistance to finally get a job.

 

And it's come up several other times as well, from others, including my ex-therapist. Insinuations that "I don't need a job" because they like my financial status as it is; although it's much poorer then I think they realize.

 

What really burns me is that, regardless of money, these people know how terrible my life is generally. I have no reason to get up in the morning. I have no friends; nobody of worth to spend my days with. I have no (true) stories to tell about what I've been getting up to from day-to-day. I have no identity.

 

Who gives a rat's ass about lousy old money? I need a job so I can have those cornerstones of a life worth living!

 

But in this mad, materialistic, mindlessly-survivalist world, people don't even seem to recognize that. In order to be worthy of a job, you apparently have to need it, based solely on financial poverty alone.

 

Which brings up a whole heap of new concerns about how such money-fixated people gauge the suitability of a job for an unemployed person. But I've probably yammered on here for too long already, so I'll just leave it at that for now.

Re: Peer Pathways week long consultation - 26th September

@chibam I absolutely agree with you about the paths that are designed for failure for many within the education system. It is expected that students 'toe the line', don't 'rock the boat' or think for themselves. There are not enough teachers/educators that allow for their students to follow their own path and/or guide them in doing so. Unfortunately, our education system is predominantly set up to produce clones and followers of the status quo - and I can say that as a teacher myself. There is a curriculum that is guided by what bureaucrats and 'experts' think should be taught and little regard for what actually needs to be learnt. We are seeing some positive changes in this regard but it is slow going. We are seeing many more pathways programs for those that do not 'fit in' to the normal educational pathway but these programs are often only offered to those most disengaged from the educational system. They should be offered more widely - as it is not always just those disengaged that want/need to follow a different path. One of the criticisms of such programs is just that - you can only 'gain' a place if you are seen to be misbehaving and/or disengaged from mainstream education - when in-fact many, many students would love to follow such a path but are never given the opportunity to do so. That then reinforces the idea that if you do what you are told, behave in what is expected as the 'appropriate' manner and continue to achieve in mainstream education then you will not have the opportunity to diversify your interests/knowledge/education in alternative ways. This then continues to justify the system we have in education and the 'learning' that is offered. 

Re: Peer Pathways week long consultation - 26th September

@Daisydreamer Very excited about this program and the benefits it could have on a much wider scale.

Re: Peer Pathways week long consultation - 26th September

@Zoe7what you describe sounds very similar to my long-held concerns about "psycho-social support", which is being touted so heavily these days. Long story short: the implications being that you can only access these services if you have a disability; even if you are non-disabled yet still in desparate need of them.

 

I've been out of school a long time, but from what you describe, it sounds like the world's gone topsy-turvy in the the interim. Now it's the delinquents who get the jobs?😳 When I was in school, they threatened us that only the "good students" would be given jobs and a future! That was how they beat us (most of us) in to submission!

 

I was born in the wrong decade. 🙁 To think, if I was born a little later, I might've gotten to have a career, and gotten to have a lot of cheeky fun in highschool, in order to make it happen.

Re: Peer Pathways week long consultation - 26th September

Hi @chibam,

 

Firstly I am so sorry to hear the exploitation you have felt and experienced when you have worked with organisations to return to work. It's something that no person should ever have to go through, and I can hear the impact it has had for you Heart 

 

You raise some really valid concerns from your personal experience, and I can hear the care that you have for those who might be interested to apply for the peer pathways program. I share the care and desire for this to be a safe, inclusive and supportive program. I hope that my response can alleviate some of these concerns. 

 

The peer pathways program was founded on the feedback we have been receiving from the Community Guide Program and the SANE Forums, that there were many people interested in exploring peer support as a career pathway. This was a program informed by the questions and inquiries SANE has been receiving over the last two years from those who access our services to offer a space for those interested to explore peer support.

 

You mentioned that there are increasing roles in peer support, and that is true, but for SANE the motivation is more about supporting service participants to build workforce readiness skills if that aligns with their personal recovery goals and interests. Employment can be an important step for some in supporting their recovery, and we hope to build a pathway for those interested in peer support to explore what that might look like for them. This program won't be something that all people want to engage in, and that is okay too, it's also why we are starting small 🙂 

 

You are right, not everyone will be interested in peer support that complete this program, and we are working to map out what applicable skills, training and supports we can offer to support people to set their own career pathway (even if that is outside of peer support), and help them to take steps towards their personal goals. It will be a very person-led process. I would be really interested to hear if you think there are any areas outside of peer support that we should also focus on to support those who might decide peer support isn't for them? 

 

I am also hearing in your post that choice is really important; and that we would need to consider how we embed choice into the pathways that this program can support people through. I agree with you, that we don't want this to be a one-size-fits all approach, and of course we want to ensure that those that come into the program feel it is a good fit for them. 

 

I really value your feedback Chibam, and the courage it takes to stand up for others who have had negative experiences related to return to work or through employment agencies. Every person has a right to feel safe, heard and supported in the return to work process, and for their wishes and personal goals to lead the direction Heart

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