20th century survival kit

[justanotherguy]

Lol... might be time to start compiling a '20th century survival kit' in case we ever have to go through this all again. Sorry to all those out there still suffering, I wish you well and keep doing the best you can, if you're doing 'life' right the hard parts are important too.

[chibam]

But it's the 21st century?😕

[justanotherguy]

Hi @chibam , from my point of view the last 20 years has been the fallout from the previous 100 years. Advancement takes sacrifices in certain areas, and I think society has sacrificed a lot to have what we have today.

[justanotherguy]

Thanks again @Appleblossom 🙂

@chibam 

It's true, advancement of any kind takes sacrifice. I truly did not realise how many people have been crushed under the weight of modern society. The Communist States murdered millions of their own people to create their 'Utopia'. Capitalist States turned to booze, drugs, gambling & pornography for the same reason - but at least they had rehab and TV evangelism to try and save souls.

[Appleblossom]

I press the support button when I like what I read, or if I feel for the person.  @justanotherguy 

[chibam]

@justanotherguy  Yeah, I agree, modern life sucks. But I can't help but suspect it's somewhat blinkered to assume that things were any better in the past.

I've spent the last 20 years doing exactly what I was determined to avoid at all costs; being stuck behind a damn computer. I often wish that I'd been born maybe 20 or 30 years earlier; when such a fate wouldn't have been so easy to impose upon a person. But then, when I really look at the lives of people who are out and about, supposedly "doing stuff", I notice that their lives are just as barren as my own; even when looking back at historical examples. I have plenty of older relatives who weren't confined behind a computer too much in their prime, and nothing interesting ever happened in their lives.

I don't think we can blame technology for the decline in quality of life.

Though I will admit that the quality of movies, TV shows & other cultural areas has declined immensely since the turn of the millennium.

I was watching this video the other day where a guy was fuming that, apparently, there is now a service where you can sign up to video chat with a completely AI-generated, totally realistic boyfriend or girlfriend. Depending on how much your prepared to fork out, there are all different levels of 'sauciness' that you can get from this service.

Now the guy who was mounting this criticism was pointing out what a disaster that this is going to be for human relationships; how droves of people are now gonna be effectively abandoning their real person relationships in order to devote themselves more to their AI boyfriend/girlfriend. And I can understand the spirit of what he's complaining about there; I want a real wife I can curl up with at night, can work alongside by day, and sit with at public engagements. I don't want to settle for the hollow pittance of a relationship with some non-existant digital rendering.

But the fact is, it's not like we've had any meaningful remedy for loneliness thus far, is it? For as long as I've been alive, there's been zero interest within our society in uniting kindred lost souls with one another, so that everybody could have meaningful relationships in their lives. Loneliness has been aloud to linger, and this service, hollow as it might be, is the first thing that's even close to a remedy that I've heard about in a very long time. Maybe going down this road, and refining it long the way, is as good as we can possibly hope for.

A couple weeks back, I watched an AI-generated video of a bunch of people standing/walking around, essentially not doing anything, but talking about what's been going on in their lives off-camera. It was so damned funny, I watched it over and over and over, and each time I laughed so hard that I nearly blacked out.

And I think back to what my life was like roughly 20 years ago. Pretty much the same; me sitting around looking at a bunch of people just sitting/standing/walking around yaking on and on about what was happening in their lives... except that those were real people, I was really in the same room with them, and every single one of those encounters were so agonizingly boring and pointless, you couldn't wait for them to be over. I tried my best to fix them, but for all my effort, I accomplished nothing.

As I've being reflecting on the contrast between those "authentic, real-person" social gathering and that AI-generated social gathering, I am struck by the fact that, as hollow and imperfect as the AI-generated gathering may have been, it was genuinely good. It gave me a small glimmer of happiness, and therefore enriched my life. I can't say the same for the countless "authentic" social gatherings I attended way back when. They were horrendous afflictions; I am so much better off for being rid of them.

Obviously this artificial social life isn't ideal. I would give anything to surround myself with real people, real relationships that are as genuinely satisfying and stimulating as my "engagement" with the characters in that AI video. But unfortunately, this is the hand that we've been dealt and, for all it's faults, the creation of AI social solutions like that is more then we had before. At least it's something, you know?

It's easy to romanticize the simplicity and mythical authenticity of the past. But I suspect it's quite naieve to believe that things were any better back then.

[justanotherguy]

Hi @chibam ,

I read your whole post and agree. In fact your post and this discussion is what life was like many years ago. Admittedly alcohol played a big part - many very deep discussions have been had over several drinks. But especially since Covid we have become even more isolated.

Forget AI chatbots. I've taken to re-engaging with the types of people who used to stand around, like you said, talking about themselves, and it's quite a shock. I remember being bored by the experience but now it's surreal - I seem to be aware of them but they don't seem to be aware of themselves. I'm trying to find connections to 'normal' (real?) people again like I used to and basic conversations are a great way to start.

[chibam]

---

@justanotherguy wrote:

Forget AI chatbots. I've taken to re-engaging with the types of people who used to stand around, like you said, talking about themselves, and it's quite a shock. I remember being bored by the experience but now it's surreal - I seem to be aware of them but they don't seem to be aware of themselves. I'm trying to find connections to 'normal' (real?) people again like I used to and basic conversations are a great way to start.

---

Well I don't get many opportunities to meet real people much these days, anyway.

But I did the thing where I obeyed (pretty much) every summons that was sent my way, for many many years, and I learned well that hoping for a positive experiance from random social gatherings is a fool's errand.

What I need is to be set up with my kind of people; not just random warm bodies. I know this is gonna sound like a really asshole-ish thing to say, but I'm sick to death of trying to appease boring people I want nothing to do with, with boring small talk I don't care for. You have no idea how many hours I invested in to that strategy, hoping to earn introductions to more interesting people. It literally sucked the will to live out of me; a large part of why I'm suicidal is because I learned well how empty and insufferable life can be like that.

It's not a problem that can just be solved by "going out there and talking to people" - believe me, I know, I've given it more then a fair try. I was conned well, a long time ago, into believing that this strategy would reap rewards for me, when it only caused me (and others) nothing but bitterness and grief. What I need is a much more deliberate solution.

I wrestle with this so much. Next year, I expect to be summoned to a relative's wedding. It'll be the first social occasion I'll have been asked to since well before COVID. You don't know how dearly I'd love to believe that my future missus will be there; that we'll be introduced, sparks will fly and the rest will be history.

But I know those relatives. That, and my breadth of experiance in these situations makes me almost certain that there would be nothing at that wedding for me except disappointment, boredom, pain, and animosity. They might be genetically linked to me, but they are not my people; hence, they don't tend to cluster with my people; and hence, it's effectively impossible that their gonna bring one of my people into a wedding and hope to forge a connection between us.

You can't count on people. I guess the AI revolution is what we've always needed, to bring some goodness in to this world.

I'm not saying that I'm certain that the AI revolution will be a good thing (it may be a catastrophic disaster); but it's the first hope we've had in a very long time that something good might happen.

[justanotherguy]

Sorry to hear the situation @chibam , I can relate but have been more isolated in my life and could tolerate people better. I did enjoy being around most social gatherings, but the older I got the more I realised I was just there to make up the numbers. In this new century I am not 'people-pleasing' as much now - I can see that people are shocked that I am, in fact, a real person with a real personality & attitude, not a mindless drone from the world of television. Somehow TV has educated people to be the most innane, mindless dolts the world has ever seen. I guarantee you that if you could transport back 150 years you would meet all sorts of interesting folks, all over the globe. Have you tried reading many books from pre-1900?

EDIT:

@justanotherguy  Yeah, I agree, modern life sucks. But I can't help but suspect it's somewhat blinkered to assume that things were any better in the past.

I'm sure many THINGS weren't better but I know people were better. From my history studies and knowing many older people growing up, they had far more character, humility, intelligence, charisma, and spirit than anyone today. An AI with the qualities you are aspiring to will literally be a representation of people from pre-1900 that I've just mentioned. The 20th century has obliterated normality.

[chibam]

@justanotherguy  Gee, it sounds like you are living in a completely differant world to the one I am. For me, it's always taken an incredible amount of effort, on my part, to be able to relate the people I know to any of the characters you'd see on TV. (With maybe 1 or 2 exceptions).

TBH, I can't see the link between TV and the epidemic of "mindless drones"; I think that's been an issue for considderably longer then the existance of TV. If anything, you'd think that TV would actually encourage people to be more interesting (although in practice, I've found little evidance that this actually works out).

My mum's really in to her family tree research, and through that, you get a bit of a picture in to the people of the past; specifically the years around the turn of the 20th century. You get the impression that there were a lot of "mindless drones" back then, too; people seemingly fanatical about prolonging their own survival, for no apparent reason. Probably just because that's what was expected of them, and they lacked the wherewithal to considder any alternatives.

It's funny that you mention old authors. I was reading something just a few weeks ago from one of the great authors of the past (I forget now what it was or who the author was), but I remember being surprised by how difficult it was to wade through this waffling piece of text from this famously "genius" author.

I've struck that on numerous occasions; finding the writing styles of "great" authors of the past difficult to wade through. I guess they're just a bit dated for me. Not the material itself, but the style in which they write it.